Sunday, April 08, 2007

Moshiach etc

Greg said:

The Sabra: I see you've labled your comment section "reasons why Moshiach is forced to come now." So I was wondering: why would the Moshiach come now? I mean, the things that are supposed to happen before He's to come haven't occurred as far as I'm concerned.

Oh and another question: do you believe the Lubavitche Rebbi
was the Moshiach?

K, first things first (cuz i wanna be a chochom).

1. Ye, I changed the label of my comments section-due to a request/threat of a blogger. The argument? Might as well get people excited (n talkin about) good, holy things vs 'stam' things. So, thanks to 'richards pooch' for that one-it's workin already!

2.You ask why moshiach should come now if the things that are supposed to happen before his coming have not yet happened. For starters, why don't you clarify which things you are talking about exactly. Are you referring to the different prophecies-nevuot that we have been told about hundreds and hundreds of years ago? Cuz most (all?) of them have materialized already. Lemme know what you have in mind, and we'll take it from there.

I know Moshiach can come now.

My proof? The Lubavitcher Rebbe said that we are ready for and waaaaaaaaay past the time for moshiach. So, that means Moshiach can come this second.

3.And finally-yes, I believe the Lubavitcher Rebbe is Moshiach. I believed he was before he passed away; and now nearly 13 years since his passing, I still believe he will be the Moshiach.

But really, that is 'neither here nor there', for our purpose is to BRING the moshiach and to ready ourselves for the redemption--not sit n argue over his identity. Incidentally, have you ever learned what the Rambam says concerning Moshiach?


the sabra said...

(where are those spammers when we need em!?)

chana said...

2. "things that are supposed to happen before He's to come"
as in - every single yid keeping one shabbos together [same week]
as in - milchomas gog umagog
{there are those that say it was WWII}

a beautifully basic nevuah that has already come true is "they will turn their swords into plowshares" (Isaiah) -happened at fall of iron curtain wen changed over tanks and other war machines to farming equipment
{the UN building is even inscribed with that nevuah}

3. since the beginning of our people, students have called - and believed in - their teachers as Moshiach. in every generation- every talmid thought his Rebbe was perfect and The One who will bring geula.
{the Rebbe fits the Rambam's criteria for who is eligible to be Moshiach}

chana said...
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Avi said...
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Greg said...

Chavaleh: but the Lubavitche rebbe is dead! Can you argue with that? And if you can't how in the world can you consider him to be the moshiach?

And as far as what Chana had to say, I don't what she was getting at but I feel she's wrong. Gog and Magog hasn't happened. It wasn't WWII (though some may say it was and it seems likely), no one has turned swords into plowshares though the iron curtain did come down and no one is planning on doing so any time in the near future(just look at Iran and Lebanon) and nowhere near to all Jews have ever kept a Shabbat.

Did I forget to mention anything;)

Nemo said...

13 years...

Pennie said...
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Pennie said...

greg - no one seems to argue that Eliyahu HaNavi will come and announce the arrival of moshiach - is he alive and walking the earth? so whats the issue if the Rebbe isn't physically with us? May they come together tonight!

Nemo said...

The logic that Moshiach cannot be from the dead is a misconception.

According to the Rambam {Hil. Melachim 11} if someone is murdered they are not fit to be Moshiach. Death by natural means does not seem to be exclusionary of being Moshiach.

This fits in with the Gemara {Sanhedrin 98b} which quotes the Chochomim asserting that "if he {Moshiach} will be from the dead..."

Chaya said...

wow nemo..never heard that one, but it answers a lot of questions. thanks

the sabra said...

thanks for the # correction nemo. we're havin the oddest debate bout it.

chanie said...

swords into plowshares does not have to be literally. there's a whole sicha on that- that the money which was intended for weaponds is now being used for agricultural puorposes. greg, go into a bookstore and ask for the book by dr. gotfryd and branover on moshiach....i forgot the title. also get the one 'sound the great shofar' and 'awaiting the redemption...' v'chulu. read, read, read....

Greg said...

nemo: when Shimon Bar-Kochba died was killed in battle, Rabbi Akiva realized he'd erred about announcing that the former had been the moshiach. But yeah...that was in battle and yeah, you know a heck of a lot more on Judaism than I do so you won't get anymore arguments out of me on this one. Only thing is I'm very, very pessimistic that the Moshiach will come anytime soon. This is probably due to the fact that I haven't returned to tshuva and don't even know whether I will at some point in the future.

I always enjoy learning more on Judaism though, so keep the info. rolling;)

Greg said...

Chava: is somebody stalking you :-0
I mean, you're deleting all these comments and I doubt there's a skin head around these here parts. Could you...maybe...lemme in on the secret admirer thingymagig?

the sabra said...

aint no secret admireres around these parts.
so far, everyone has been pretty open about their admiration, wouldn't you say?

re ur teshuva/moshiach comments-arghhh theres so much to say and if i start ill never stop, and if i never stop my admirers will flee so im not starting.
two things though (how'd i know it??)- one, i think its awesome that u realize moshiach's coming is dependent on you and two, ur teshuva comment makes me smile cuz ur comment is so full of teshuva ;)

agav, didja ever email the rabbi? and if not, lamah lo?

Eitan Ha'ahzari said...

Chavaleh: lo, lo hitkasharti la'rav shehozet li. Ani lomed im shochen shelanu. Hu higiya hena me'beit el. Beintaim ha'kol ragu'a. Ein hadashim. Ma itach? Ani mikave she ezlech hakol beseder.

Eitan Ha'ahzari said...

how do u like my new nickname btw?