Sunday, January 07, 2007


Self-pity is nothing less than an impulse to destroy yourself. And this is its script:

"This is the way you were made. These are the facts of your situation. It's bad. Worse than anybody else in the whole world. In fact, it's so bad, it's impossible to do anything about it. And therefore, you are free from any responsibility to clean it up. Nobody can blame you for anything."

Self-pity is a thief, and a liar. A thief, because it steals away every opportunity you have to move on in life. A liar, because anyone who says he tried to clean up his mess but couldn't succeed is telling an outright lie.

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(words and condensation by Tzvi Freeman)


Dovid said...

You like that?

the sabra said...


you don't?

Dovid said...


..anyone who says he tried to clean up his mess but couldn't succeed is telling an outright lie.

I never got the whole "Yagati v'lo matzasi, al tammin," thing. Maybe it applies to Torah, where there's bechira, but in what about everywhere else?

Some times, for some people, life really sucks.

the sabra said...

a torah quote is true
and truth does not change with time, nor with passport number

in other words, it applies to everything-all areas of your life-and to everyone as all times.

you write that "Some times, for some people, life really sucks."

i believe that.but are you telling me that they did what they can to unsuckitate their life and it failed? that they REALLY REALLY did everything possible in order to extricate themselves for the mess?

though what is a mess is for our next discussion...

Dovid said...

Yes. 100%. I think the question is somewhat absurd. How can people get out of orphanhood, R"L? Or out of the holocaust? Or out of poverty? These things are decreed upon man by G-d. And why do you say that it has to apply to every area of life? If it was said regarding Torah study, in which there is bechirah, why can't it be contained there?

the sabra said...

gam zeh lo v'gam zeh lo...

it's intended for all areas of our life that WE HAVE CONTROL OVER! so yes, you are correct in saying that one cannot 'overcome their orphanhood' but he is definitely not exempt from overcoming his depression regarding it.

another thing-why do you say that only with torah we have bechira? i dont understand you. we have total and complete free choice in ALL areas of our life.

Rochel said...

..anyone who says he tried to clean up his mess but couldn't succeed is telling an outright lie.

i would rephrase that to anyone who 100% totally tried...
lots of time in life u try 2 staiten our unstich urself but it doesnt always work! all we can do is try our hardest.

Dovid said...

It says clearly in the Gemorro that everything is decided in heaven besides for a person's fear of heaven. You have bechira about how to act. But the circumstances of your life are completely controlled.

Now, you say that a person is held responsible for feeling depression about something, although he can't change that thing. Fair enough. But the original post says that "anyone who says he tried to clean up his mess but couldn't succeed is telling an outright lie." And my point (to which you seemed to have conceded) was that that's not true, as there is no way to clean up certain messes.

the sabra said...

but that wouldn't be HIS mess, dovid. it's not HIS doing. we are talking about the actions of man here. what's that about ten percent is action and 90 percent reaction? and those other brilliant quotes aimed to imply that it's all about a persons response to his circumstance...

yogati oomatzasi taamin is from the same talmud that you quote.

of course we are talkin about 100%. and you know, we are also promised that not only will we succeed but the success will be disproportionate to the effort. Meaning that if we do all we can, and REALLY TRY 100%, then Hashem will rewards us with a success that far 'outdid' our effort.

(learned that from r' resnick)

Dovid said...

Well, then, in that case, there's a stirah between the reisha and the seifa. It's mashma from the reisha that the person is depressed by things that are out of his control. (and the chiddush is that he can even correct the things that were imposed upon him by his circumstances.)

elisheva said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
kasamba said...

I always agree with the Rebbe!

Self pity can rob a person of his dignity and energy leaving him unable to clean up his mess!

(How are you Sheifela?)

Anonymous said...

You should have attended Rav Appell's wednesday night shiur at cafe rimon..

Simcha poretz geder.. a jew is not limited to physical boundaries.. we can go higher then the physical limitation's.

Hey no matter how hard I try I still wont hear dammit! but do I let that limit me ?

Obviously I cant do certain things like talk on the phone and of course yagati umatzati is not relevant, because I cannot do it! But what I can do is communicate another way or get the thing done some other way besides by phone...

Dovid... life does not suck for anyone.. I had 11 operations and getting at least 2 more and trust me I am extremely happy and love life!!

Life is like everything in it.. its how you view things.. you said that everything is min hashamayim... which includes life and everything in it... to say life sux is kefira...

We are not limited by mazalos.. a jew can change his mazal by his outlook. The chabad rabeim did not just use "tracht gut vet zein gut" as a funky quote.. it is true!

And returning to Rav Appell, he tells a story about Rav Leibel groner who had xray's / MRI's or whatever and they found a cancerous growth lo aleinu..

He went to the rebbe who firmly said "there's no such a thing! your healthy.. gai avek! go make a farbrengen!"

So Rav groner says "but the xray clearly shows.."

The rebbe said "the xray shows nothing!!! go back and you will see it does not exist"

And sof sof it did not exist!

So if one wants to sit around and nebach all day.. then he is to blame.. he can instead say "well fine zehu lets deal with it and keep rowing.."

Because the longer you nebach.. the largeer the hole gets so yalla get moving before you sink!

Anonymous said...

How come everyone needs to run to the goyim on how to think ?

Voltaire was a french goy!

Why not quote from Rambam or Kuzari or pirkey avot or the chabad rabei'im ?

Why does everyone feel the need to quote shakespeare, Spinoza, Benjamin Franklin etc..

And then they tell me I am not chasidish..

Learn the rambam's more nevuchim or the rebbe's letters on emunah or thousands more.

Chochma comes from chochma of atzilus where the torah comes from.. it emanates from or en sef and is meluvash in keter..

By having to run to goyim for philosophy you are dirtying the or en sef and fall into the pit that yevanim dug..

Because torah is not just a literary work but its the levush for the or en sef and comes from malchus!

So next time lets quote tanya!

P.S. I recall reading somewhere about a very high negative affect that is caused by quoting goyshe piloshophy etc..

the sabra said...


i merely wanted to know if i said/did something to scare u off or stam you lost interest? (happens to all of us..)

im so happy to hear from you, you'd never guess.

(k what is UP with the sabra these days??)

as for everyone else and their comments-you'll just have to wait. my pillow is shoutin and im all outta cough drops....

Nemo said...

"Chochma comes from chochma of atzilus where the torah comes from.. it emanates from or en sef and is meluvash in keter.."

Does anybody else see something wrong with this statement?

Torah is Chochmas Hashem from Atzmus.

.. AND Atzilus is much lower and comes after Kesser

Anonymous said...

Yes and no.. it has to go down the chain of hishtalshlus.. being that the or en sof is meluvash in torah.. which is then brought down by learning..

But the or en sof enclothes itself first in keter..

It has to go down to chochma of atzilus to make the leap to malchus of briah..

Abba of atzilus and ima etc..

Depends which ma'amer your learning ;)

Pragmatician said...

Well said, self pity on the other hand permits you to just forget baout your troubles and feel so helpless that you just know that H'Ashem will come and rescue you as no one and nothing else can.

Greg said...

Wow, Sabra, I just posted something which seems to be connected to what you're saying here. I don't think these kinds of things are accidents. No! People have a way of being binded together and thinking alike.

I hope you're well.


kasamba said...

Hey Sabra!
I was happy to see you too!

shaina matel said...

I totally agree with u mel, totally :)

the sabra said...

it's from the rebbe, not me.

mishmum said...

AH look what I found!