Sunday, March 05, 2006

reason itself is a creation

the thought weirds me out

13 comments:

JB said...

It weirds you out? 'Reasonably' so... ;)

Although your blog is titled "al tishali oti," allow me to do just that... If reason is a creation, what reason was there for creation? Sounds like it's time to open a Chassidus Sefer :).

How about trying to imagine what the world would be like if reason hadn't been created...

::shiver::

Now that weirds me out...

Ilana said...

Is tayva a creation?

the sabra said...

jb-hashem didn't have or need a reason. it was a tayva. now that leads us to almostholy's question-is tayva a creation? hmmm that i do not know. i must do as jb suggested and open a 'chassidus sefer' to find out.

Nemo said...

Af a taayveh fregt nish kayn Kashos.... My yiddish sucks, butthat slightly misquoted line from Somach Vov answers it all.... We cannot ask questions on Taayvos, we just have them. Forget about it all, Hashem had a desire. At the end of them day we'll never understand it.

Anonymous said...

oh ms.sabra i thought you were the reason for creation ;)

Anonymous said...

ah borcuh hashem the anonimity worked!!!

Ilana said...

But tayva obviously must have been created at some point, no?

the sabra said...

Nemo-I know that. But almostholy has a valid question about the CREATION of tayva. Hes not asking about the nature or reasons..just if it IS a creation.

It cannot be a creation, because Hashem only BEGAN the process of Creating, AFTER He had a tayvah.

anonymous-bishvili nivrah haolam. (oh and my mum can beat up your mum so...)

JB said...

Sabra: I know Hashem didnt need a reason, the point I was making is that we need him to. His tayvah was the reason for creation.

Now the question is: Is the fact that we have to put forth a reason to explain creation, just because reason was created first? Or because once reason was created, it became a part of our inherent makeup, and now we must have a reason to explain everything, no matter how trivial it may seem - e.g. a desire.

Nemo said...

Desire is higher than reason.

Reason is needs to be created, it's formula and basis.

Desire is just because.

{It does seem mundane for G-d to have desired something, but Chassidus explains that this is because of simple untamed joy. It is surely a creation because it is lowly to say that G-d desired... he is higher than everything else and surely isn't subject to emotion}

Nemo said...

To that Chassidus says that we can't question Taayvos

Ilana said...

So I guess now the question is, was reason created before anything else? Was it the tayva that was created first? Will we ever know? Does it even matter?

JB said...

Nemo: Very well written, thanks :)! I was stressing a different point though, sorry for not being clear enough:

Why do WE need to have a reason for everything. We're even trying to reason away a tayvah, until Chassidus tells us to stop. It's no use. Tayvah is beyond reason. Were always "trying to make sense of this world" trying to reason it out. What is this obsession with reason? Why cant we just say - "Just because?" (Which is still an obsession with reason, because we need to ask for one, and give one, albeit a lame one...)

It seems as if we cannot escape reason. I was trying to figure out why (there we go again, looking for a reason ;)).

What I was suggesting was: Reason was created before us, and woven into the fabric of existence. We were then placed into this created existence, and thus cannot escape its boundaries, its rules. Be it time, space, or reason. We cannot think outside the created box (we can study it in Chassidus, but never really understand). We cannot even begin to imagine what it would be like without any of those. (Which btw, is why we cannot understand how G-d existed forever and was not created - but thats for a different post ;)).

Whaddya think?